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THE SHAMAN

topic posted Thu, December 20, 2007 - 4:32 AM by  Unsubscribed
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There seems to be some differences here about what a Shaman is,
and so many seem to want to deny the Warrior Aspect Of Shamanism.
To remove this aspect of the Shaman is to remove the entire core.

This type of Denial means we are not learning every aspect of Shamanism,
and so many forget that Shamans in the Elder years thought nothing of,
ripping out an Enemies heart and eating it to absorb their Foes Magickal Powers.
Much the same as Shamans work equally with the 'Darkness' as they do the light,
having met a Shaman who can simply swallow his Patients Entities,
with no effect to himself suggests the Warrior aspects are well worth the trouble to learn.
As they actually promote a Deeper Healing.
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  • Re: THE SHAMAN

    Thu, December 20, 2007 - 6:01 AM
    Yes, there are warrior shaman paths and there are adventurer shaman path. One comes from a history of cold winters the other from the warmer tropical climates. From what I've seen, both are equally effective.
    • Re: THE SHAMAN

      Thu, December 20, 2007 - 6:32 AM
      Glenn-

      Some excellent points. This facet of shamanism seems to have been removed in the neo-shamanic roads that have sought to "sanitize" shamanism for the purpose of increasing its marketability to those who might otherwise squirm (or run) in the presence of this side of the road.

      And, in addition to the road of the Warrior, there's also the road of the Healer. The mistake, I feel, is in assuming that these are two separate roads.

      Thanks for speaking on an important and all too often overlooked facet of the dance.

      Veg
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        Re: THE SHAMAN

        Thu, December 20, 2007 - 8:20 AM
        Thank you, I agree totally, The Warrior is also the Nuturer if taught correctly.
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      Re: THE SHAMAN

      Thu, December 20, 2007 - 8:15 AM
      Thank You, healing and Initiation are the same thing.
      This I agree with but the Warrior is also the Nuturer is he or she not so how can these paths be divided ?
      Plus the Shaman would lead the War Band to protect the Tribe so warmer Climates also have Warriors do they not ?
      • Re: THE SHAMAN

        Thu, December 20, 2007 - 10:34 AM
        There is a practice in shamanism that I have encountered called "Dismemberment"
        It is said in some shamanic cultures that the more dismemberments the more powerful the shaman.
        Has anyone else experienced this deeply engaging and wild practice?

        Veg....which shamanic practices are you referring to when you speak of the distilling shamanism for the masses?
        I am curious to know what shamanic teaching you have received that were sanitized.

        Angeles Arrien in her book the Four Fold Way talks about four aspects of living life fully.
        The Warrior-Show up
        The Visionary-Pay attention to what has heart and meaning
        The Healer-Tell the truth without blame or judgement
        The Teacher-be open to the outcome

        Peace, Julie
        • Re: THE SHAMAN

          Thu, December 20, 2007 - 10:41 AM
          Julie-

          "There is a practice in shamanism that I have encountered called "Dismemberment"
          It is said in some shamanic cultures that the more dismemberments the more powerful the shaman.
          Has anyone else experienced this deeply engaging and wild practice?"

          Many times.

          "Veg....which shamanic practices are you referring to when you speak of the distilling shamanism for the masses?"

          I'm speaking specifically about the neo-shamanic paths, not indigenous roads.

          Love,
          Veg
          • Re: THE SHAMAN

            Thu, December 20, 2007 - 11:48 AM
            "Warrior aspects are well worth the trouble to learn.
            As they actually promote a Deeper Healing" Great post Glenn.

            I would say it's essential and unavoidable. Every individual that still has a conscience in place has some form of inner battle occurring as the differing aspects of the psyche, ego, identity and form are encountered and a dominance established(choice). Denial is an essential defense mechanism that is always in play and always an aspect of "decision making". We can not live with out it yet allowing it to go unchecked is equally disastrous. As elements of self perceive self, denial is encountered and is either corrected or maintained. Regardless of which side is chosen, the process of decision is a battle. Some battles are so swift they are unrecognized, others leave all kinds of feelings, doubts and reactions.

            Also very important note, the search for truth will lead one into many battles, both within the self and the environment.
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              Re: THE SHAMAN

              Thu, December 20, 2007 - 12:17 PM
              Thank you frank, that it is exactly what I am getting at and put so well.
              The battle is against our resistence to change and keep changing.
              This then brings us to the next Hurdle of Death, as this is a change also.
          • Re: THE SHAMAN

            Thu, December 20, 2007 - 12:31 PM
            Hey Veg,
            What do you mean by neo shamanic path and how does that relate to distilling the shamanic teachings.
            I am wanting to get to the heart of this......I feel that there is generalization about certain shamanic paths and am
            asking directly for you to say what you have experienced and how that was fake. Thanks, Julie
            • Re: THE SHAMAN

              Thu, December 20, 2007 - 2:02 PM
              Julie-

              "What do you mean by neo shamanic path and how does that relate to distilling the shamanic teachings.
              I am wanting to get to the heart of this......I feel that there is generalization about certain shamanic paths and am
              asking directly for you to say what you have experienced and how that was fake. "

              I'd respectfully ask that you not put words in my mouth. I never used the word "fake".

              To be clear, I am speaking directly about "core shamanism". To me, "core shamanism" is clearly an attempt to "sanitize" indigenous shamanism to, at least in part, make it more marketable (some may prefer the word "accessible") to the target audience. This has been done by wholly neglecting certain facets of indigenous traditions, while scaling down/prettying up/reinventing other facets. And, to make it even more "accessible", there's plenty of the "Western worldview" thrown in as well.

              I am also not making generalizations, but rather speaking from my perception and my experience. I have read a number of the "core shamanism" books, talked and worked with "core shamanism practitioners" and I have also been under the tutelage of indigenous Elders for a decade now.

              In my opinion, "core shamanism" bears little resemblance to any form of indigenous shamanism I've ever seen. The indigenous Elders I know seem to agree. I'm not getting into a conversation about which is better. Everyone has to make that decision for themselves. Everyone has their road, and I appreciate that.

              I have seen nothing in "core shamanism" that expresses the face of the Warrior, and many other facets of indigenous shamanism.

              That, for me, is one of many causes for concern. Again, that's me and my road.

              Love,
              Veg
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          Re: THE SHAMAN

          Thu, December 20, 2007 - 12:15 PM
          Dismemberment , Dont try this at Home Kids !

          Usually the first stirings of Shamanic Initiation rites and involves the Shaman being 'stripped to the Core'
          One Image we could associate with this is the Vulture tearing a Corpse to shreds until all that is left are the bare Bones.
          Dismemberment in the West is usually a case of the Shaman going close or fully into Insanity, with no known Guides or helpers.
          there are usually strong hallucinations attached and the Spirits steal away the Shamans soul to take it into the Underworld.
          The Initiate does not have a clue what is happening.

          The Spirits then cut the Initiates Soul to bits ( Actual Rite of Dismemberment) and boil it all in a cauldron.
          The result is usually serious Initiatory illness which can last for years leaving the Shaman on the brink of Physical death.
          Paranoia and Nervous / Mental Breakdowns. This continues until the Initiate realises he or she is in fact born of Shamanic origins.
          Strength is then slowly regained and the Shaman may retreat to nature at this point to seek solice and recovery.

          Shortly after this, the Initiate will discover and guide them towards learning to heal others.
          Dismemberment is painful and it is a serious Business, not something i would recommend to the neo Types,
          actually I probably would ! The Shaman then rebuilds the Initiate and ensures he or she remains safe thereafter.
          Until the Initiate can stand on their own two magickal feet, Journey, heal and Engage in magickal / Physical Combat.
          Hence my post, there are few Authentic Shamans in Society.

          However, in saying this Ayahusca is possibly another way of doing this so long as the Shaman conducting the Rite knows how to call upon a Spirit such as the Hindu Goddess Khali. In short Dismemberment destroys Illusion and reunites the Shaman to the natural World by Deconditioning and Destroying Social Doctrination.

          To be honest, it is far to complex to explain here, Experience is better than explaining where this is concerned.
          It is still a fairly secret Rite and not everyone who learns Shamanism goes through it as this is a natural selection,
          administered by the Dark Goddess, Baba Yaga. She choses us we dont go to her asking.
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          Re: THE SHAMAN

          Thu, December 20, 2007 - 12:20 PM
          While I accept this is good advice Julie, to have the courage to turn up is one thing,
          To stand and fight is another, the Warrior must learn to make fear an Allie not a restricting enemy.
          Much the same as a Boxer or Martial Artist. The Shaman however, will take it to the point of not fearing death Itself.
          A hard Path to follow.
          • Re: THE SHAMAN

            Thu, December 20, 2007 - 12:41 PM
            Yes, thanks, Glenn.....I shared the Angeles Arrien stuff because it gave a slightly different twist to the path of the warrior.
            Warring and being a warrior to me are different and thus I wanted to make a distinction. I have been working with fear all my life.
            I used to be so afraid of so many things, my shamanic studies with Susun Weed helped me to walk with fear in a new way.
            I have learned that to fully embrace fear has brought great awareness into my perception. Fear to me sometimes can take on an ecstatic quality. Well, the dismemberment topic is very controversial. My experience is that it is given, not asked for like you have stated.
            And once experienced can bring such awareness that the old way of being is totally destroyed.
            My experience with this is that it isn't painful, but utterly disturbing.
            Peace, Julie
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              Re: THE SHAMAN

              Thu, December 20, 2007 - 1:32 PM
              peace to you also x
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                Re: THE SHAMAN

                Thu, December 20, 2007 - 2:17 PM
                oh i love this glenn, sounds like what life does ..je je"The Spirits then cut the Initiates Soul to bits ( Actual Rite of Dismemberment) and boil it all in a cauldron.
                The result is usually serious Initiatory illness which can last for years leaving the Shaman on the brink of Physical death.
                Paranoia and Nervous / Mental Breakdowns. This continues until the Initiate realises he or she is in fact born of Shamanic origins.
                Strength is then slowly regained and the Shaman may retreat to nature at this point to seek solice and recovery."

                Every human is a warrior whether hidden or not. the warrior is built into us. sometimes people go their whole lives without coming into a situation that activates the warrior, sometimes people just run into one situation after another. the fear encountered when doing alchemy with oneself draws the warrior out.

                i like this to julie a balance must always be sought

                Angeles Arrien in her book the Four Fold Way talks about four aspects of living life fully.
                The Warrior-Show up
                The Visionary-Pay attention to what has heart and meaning
                The Healer-Tell the truth without blame or judgement
                The Teacher-be open to the outcome



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                  Re: THE SHAMAN

                  Thu, December 20, 2007 - 2:43 PM
                  Shel,
                  it should sound like what life does, after all it is her that is doing it LOL
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                    Re: THE SHAMAN

                    Thu, December 20, 2007 - 2:47 PM
                    oh i like to think of life as a hairy legged, ahh her
            • Re: THE SHAMAN

              Sun, January 6, 2008 - 9:51 PM
              The word 'fight' could be generalized even further as a 'struggle' in order to avoid making violence and aggression inherent factors, because many times the toughest battles our lives are internal and involve no actual opponent or antagonist. But for poetic value, the word fight is good, we can all transcend the semantics, no?

              In any case, I have come to believe that a Soldier fights out of instinct and fear, a Warrior fights out of passion and will.

              The old Love vs. Fear paradigm, very trite I know. Anyway, to be a Warrior, and to 'fight' in the truest sense of the word is to actively struggle against forces that would seek to undermine and separate two factors of existence, Truth and Love. There fore, a Warrior is in engaged in a constant struggle to unify the positive and negative, masculine feminine, etc etc inside himself so that his/her actions are not simply enslaved to a dualistic cause/effect cycle. This battle cannot be fought with fear, as fear is a dividing force. To fight it with fear is not to actively struggle, but actively succumb to the opponent. Every action motivated by a balanced force of Truth and Love is the strike of a true Warrior, as opposed to the mindless survival tactics of a Soldier. I suppose you could almost say that the only fight, or struggle, is to defeat ones own survival mechanisms, in order to release oneself from the constant cycle of action/reaction and liberate the spirit to realize that its divine omnipotence needs to defending.
              Anyway, thats getting way too intellectual. A Warrior, as has been said many times before, fights with his heart, not his head.

              All Love
              • Re: THE SHAMAN

                Mon, January 7, 2008 - 7:59 AM
                Awescome sailin. NOT too intellectually. Your last sentence, you meant "needs NO defending"?

                I would only add the vast and expansive element of compassion to the mix.

                After having been a pretty hard core activist and then moving the "battle" to the spiritual realms, I hope someday to return to activism and incorporate the principals of love to the struggle for justice.
                • Re: THE SHAMAN

                  Mon, January 7, 2008 - 2:20 PM
                  bingo, needs NO defending...i need a fulltime editor, want the job? ;) thanks for the correction.
                  and of course, compassion being the ultimate unifying force and highest virtue to be sought...amen.
                  i know exactly what you mean about having a hard time keeping one foot in the 'struggle' and the other in your aether. i had to abandon my ideals of 'activism' recently when i realized my 'ideals' were totally biased and self serving. what a great slap in the face. anyway, i think if we just keep the notion that our internal order must be synchronized before the external order, we will automatically begin to exude the changes we wish to see. keep up the 'fight' ;)
                  love
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                    Re: THE SHAMAN

                    Mon, January 7, 2008 - 5:51 PM
                    :)
                    When "Keep up the fight." means the same thing as "Shine out the light."
        • Re: THE SHAMAN

          Thu, December 20, 2007 - 2:21 PM
          Julie-

          "Angeles Arrien in her book the Four Fold Way talks about four aspects of living life fully.
          The Warrior-Show up
          The Visionary-Pay attention to what has heart and meaning
          The Healer-Tell the truth without blame or judgement
          The Teacher-be open to the outcome "

          And with all due respect, this is a great example of what I mean by "sanitizing". To equate the medicine of the Warrior with "showing up" is, to me, to communicate a picture that is, at best, woefully incomplete and, at worst, entirely off the mark.

          The author you mentioned is very popular in certain circles. Her information is very "marketable", very comfortable. Usually the same crowd that's drawn to "core shamanism". This isn't a judgment, but rather an observation.

          As I said, everyone has their road.

          Love,
          Veg
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            Re: THE SHAMAN

            Thu, December 20, 2007 - 2:30 PM
            and a damn good observation....
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              Re: THE SHAMAN

              Thu, December 20, 2007 - 2:45 PM
              The Warrior- THE NYFE IN THE HAND
              The Visionary- THE EYE OF THE EAGLE
              The Healer- THE HEART OF A GENTLE CARESS
              The Teacher- THE ONE WHO KNOWS

              ZAT BETTAH BOYOZ
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                Re: THE SHAMAN

                Thu, December 20, 2007 - 2:52 PM
                yes it is but I feel the teacher is the one who trusts what they do not know !
                as opposed to being the one who knows. But this does kinda some it all up.
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              Re: THE SHAMAN

              Thu, December 20, 2007 - 2:49 PM
              Dudes we need to remeber that Julie is speaking from her heart and looking to learn and teach as we all are,
              maybe I should write a book !
              What do you guys think ?
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                Re: THE SHAMAN

                Thu, December 20, 2007 - 2:54 PM
                oh iwasnt dissing julie glen i was trying to make the categories more acceptable to the nit pickers, i dont know what core shamanism it and it might be flaky veggie but julie is definatley not ... we must see a bit further, to "show up" makes perfect sense for a warrior explanation, perfect sense.......
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                  Re: THE SHAMAN

                  Thu, December 20, 2007 - 2:57 PM
                  its like i could dislike deepak choprah and say something dissing his whole new agey high income crowd, but hey he actually knows some things, they may be things you have heard a hundred times but it does not make them untrue
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                    Re: THE SHAMAN

                    Thu, December 20, 2007 - 2:58 PM
                    you should definitely write a book glenn
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                      Re: THE SHAMAN

                      Thu, December 20, 2007 - 3:06 PM
                      maybe I will,
                      sorry about that last thread,
                      im shit at IT as you may all have noticed and didnt realise you have to reply individually Sorry Shel, my mistake.
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                  Re: THE SHAMAN

                  Thu, December 20, 2007 - 3:04 PM
                  Shel, I wasn't saying you were dissing anyone, and I certainly dont see Julie as any kind of Fake as you say.
                  Just trying to calm down the pace a little. I've heard of core Shamanism but never practiced any of it to my knowledge so I cant comment on that as a system.
              • Re: THE SHAMAN

                Thu, December 20, 2007 - 3:06 PM
                Julie-I guess you are referring to being dismembered in the alternate realities. This has happened to me a number of times. I just fu=igured it was some form of death/ rebirth with the help of the sprits. I know of at least one other practice that involves physical mutilation. I have participated in this too. Sometimes an animal will eat part of me and then I will eat part of it. I 've been stripped to the bones and turned inside out. Do y'all see these as healings, power gifts?
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                  Re: THE SHAMAN

                  Thu, December 20, 2007 - 3:08 PM
                  yes I do and they follow the traditional patterns of shamanism.
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                    Re: THE SHAMAN

                    Thu, December 20, 2007 - 3:15 PM
                    Sorry Julie just realised this was for you, I need glasses dudes.
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                      Re: THE SHAMAN

                      Thu, December 20, 2007 - 3:23 PM
                      oh i was not talkin to you glenn i was talking to veggie but he has dissipated
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                        Re: THE SHAMAN

                        Thu, December 20, 2007 - 5:04 PM
                        **"Every human is a warrior whether hidden or not. the warrior is built into us. sometimes people go their whole lives without coming into a situation that activates the warrior, sometimes people just run into one situation after another. the fear encountered when doing alchemy with oneself draws the warrior out. "**

                        Hear, hear Shel Bac!


                        **"... we must see a bit further, to "show up" makes perfect sense for a warrior explanation, perfect sense....... "**

                        Eeeexactly, Shel!

                        **"Angeles Arrien in her book the Four Fold Way talks about four aspects of living life fully.
                        The Warrior-Show up
                        The Visionary-Pay attention to what has heart and meaning
                        The Healer-Tell the truth without blame or judgement
                        The Teacher-be open to the outcome"**

                        If all humans acted from these four more often.........whoa, what a difference to humanity's experience of one another that would make! Thanks Julie.

                        This almost incessant nit-picking over Core-Shamanism versus South American Shamanism that turns up in so many threads is getting sooooo boring, lol. They're just systems afterall. It is the practitioner that really matters. Regardless of system it is the practitioner who is genuine or not. In my opinion systems are given far too much power, when what is really relevant is how the system is being used, and what for! Even the bulls--t artists are useful, as they do provide an opportunity for one to practice a bit of discernment, lol.
                        • Re: THE SHAMAN

                          Thu, December 20, 2007 - 5:07 PM
                          Jazmin-

                          It may be boring for you, but for people who have studied under indigenous Elders, and who understand the struggles they've endured to keep their traditions alive, it's anything but.

                          There are real reasons why many indigenous Elders (and those trained by them) have concerns about "core shamanism". Sorry to bore you, but these are real issues.

                          You'd think in a tribe supposedly dedicated to shamanism there'd be a) a greater awareness of these concerns and b) a greater openness to hearing them, even if they're uncomfortable or challenging or, to some, even boring.

                          Veg
                          • Re: THE SHAMAN

                            Thu, December 20, 2007 - 5:07 PM
                            ps. The following:

                            "It may be boring for you, but for people who have studied under indigenous Elders, and who understand the struggles they've endured to keep their traditions alive, it's anything but. "

                            should have read...

                            "...but for indigenous Elders and people who have studied under indigenous Elders..."

                            Veg
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                              Re: THE SHAMAN

                              Thu, December 20, 2007 - 5:20 PM
                              its cool veggie i am sure that there are good switched on Elders and core people, and it is always good to have your point of view, you are the one that seems to be drawing lines and stuff. for me healing is healing. and when you say" shows up " is a lousy way to describe a warrior great thats your opinion, when at the same time you mention Elders to back yourself up, thats lame. did you just pop onto to the Elder phone and check with them on that ?
                            • Re: THE SHAMAN

                              Thu, December 20, 2007 - 5:27 PM
                              What the hell is "core " shamanism anyways. It sounds like what my uncle would call wasicu teachings. Someone even asked him if he was a shaman. He replied "What the hell is a shaman?"

                              Is core supposed to mean adhering strictly yo indigenous tradition?

                              If it is, it only seems that there are very few core shaman, living traditianally tucked away in some litlle corner of the world.

                              :)
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                                Re: THE SHAMAN

                                Thu, December 20, 2007 - 5:35 PM
                                you know zachary i dunno, i am sure if this whole thing worked bettter we could go to a Core tribe and find out, but i can barely get this to work here and so we remain in mystery. whet i am sure of is that the Core has nothing to do with the Elders, veggie has told me that.
                              • Re: THE SHAMAN

                                Fri, December 21, 2007 - 2:06 AM
                                Core shamanism is basically taking the fundimental elements from all the different expressions of shamanism that have grown up around the world. The idea is to create a system that can be function within any social structure and community. I think there is often a connitation with core shamanism that the people who do it "chose" to "become shamans", rather than having the spontanious shamanistic rebirthing that is the case in many tribal shamanic systems. However, core shamanism can, and is, useful for people in western culture who do have these experiances spontaniously and have no cultural framework to make sense of what's happening to them. It is true that through this spreading, there are people who use shamanistic techniques for personal healing, and that of people around them, who don't take it to the level of Shaman. Generally these people don't refer to themselves as shamans though (myself included).

                                Also, I've heard of tribal communities sending people out from their tribe specifically to teach westerners about shamanism, as their numbers are depleating as the young people lose interest in the old ways and they see their knowledge disspearing. These elders obviously aren't the ones who hvae been spoken about who apparently abhore anyone who isn't a tribal person who is practicing shamanistic techniques!
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                              Re: THE SHAMAN

                              Thu, December 20, 2007 - 5:33 PM
                              Vege, the way you go on you'd think these people are a bunch of victims who need to be single-handedly rescued by you. If their system and practitioners are powerful....they will ultimately be okay whatever happens.

                              If you are allowed to be eeeendlessly indignant I am surely allowed to be bored without you running me down for it!
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                                Re: THE SHAMAN

                                Thu, December 20, 2007 - 5:36 PM
                                Oh and Vege...do exxxscuuuse me for not bowing down to your obvious superiority. You see I too can be sarcastic!
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                                  Re: THE SHAMAN

                                  Thu, December 20, 2007 - 5:53 PM
                                  Core? Elders? i feel like i am in a star trek re run
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                                    Re: THE SHAMAN

                                    Thu, December 20, 2007 - 6:00 PM
                                    come on veggie talk to us i know we get your panties in a wad but we love yahs anyway, dont be a stick in the mud, hey jazmin is making noises at you
                                • Re: THE SHAMAN

                                  Thu, December 20, 2007 - 6:03 PM
                                  What elite-ism...

                                  Shamalitists...

                                  The need for lables to create validity is pure ego without substance.

                                  Shame and elitisim

                                  In reality, why would any "Tribe Elder" care what we say or do or how we market our new age product. The Elders concern is with the tribe and the tribes needs. People places and things outside the tribe are not relevant to the tribes function.

                                  Making others wrong to create an idea of qualified is beyond weak, lame and dishonest.
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                                    Re: THE SHAMAN

                                    Thu, December 20, 2007 - 6:14 PM
                                    ahh come on frank we all do it in our everyday lives, we cant blast veggie for it, but it is a good thing to watch, for all of us. but your right down with labels up with FUSION
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                                    Re: THE SHAMAN

                                    Thu, December 20, 2007 - 7:30 PM
                                    Frank, a valid comment, but i think my original point was based upon the quality of Experience not an argument about labels.
                                    The elders do in fact care, many want Urban or 'bridging' Shamanism to exist in the City.
                                    This is to integrate Shamanic Wisdom back to Humanity as a whole,
                                    but ensuring the traditional Roots remain intact or it simply cannot survive at all.
                                    They know their homes are being taken, their land snatched away.
                                    A beneficial way of life is becoming extinct in its original form,
                                    or evolving beyond itself.

                                    What is really important for all of us and our remarks here,
                                    is to remember the whole point of what we all do is to rid Society of Dis - ease.
                                    Even Warriors acknowledge this but we have to do it without feeling sorry for others,
                                    as this only weakens those we are trying to help, each other.

                                    As for writing here lets involve some shamanism proper !
                                    I politely request all of you to pay each other a Compliment.
                                    We are creating an Elemental Force just by knowing each other and the AKA Chords are intact.
                                    So lets give our Tribal Elemental some good vibes.
                                    Dont forget to sort your AKAS out at Bedtime,
                                    I dont want my new found friends drained !

                                    "Although I do not know you all Face to face.
                                    I honour your remarks and comments today.
                                    Each and everyone of you is a Brave Soul walking the Path of Enlightenment
                                    and for this alone I love You without Conditions.

                                    Each of You is wise,
                                    each of you will be in the right place at the right time.
                                    The Ancestors will guide you.
                                    Place them in your thoughts and feed them well,
                                    for they are family who have walked before us.
                                    Shamanism is our life source, our life blood and we are here together again.
                                    Blessed with Grace, Strength, Love and Unity.
                                    this day, each of us has taken the courage,
                                    to step into our Power.
                                    Love is the Power and the Power is Love."
                                    Hailsa.
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                                      Re: THE SHAMAN

                                      Thu, December 20, 2007 - 7:39 PM
                                      thanks for bringing more love and wisdom to our tribe glenn.........
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                                        Re: THE SHAMAN

                                        Thu, December 20, 2007 - 7:51 PM
                                        Thank you for allowing me a space in your lives where I can truly be myself.

                                        We are all equals in the Eyes of the Goddess.
                                        Pan will bring us joy and we all have the ability to share this with each other.
                                        Let us gather together, in Passion and Peace.
                                    • Re: THE SHAMAN

                                      Fri, December 21, 2007 - 5:17 AM
                                      Glenn-

                                      "The elders do in fact care, many want Urban or 'bridging' Shamanism to exist in the City.
                                      This is to integrate Shamanic Wisdom back to Humanity as a whole,
                                      but ensuring the traditional Roots remain intact or it simply cannot survive at all. "

                                      Well said.

                                      Ultimately, I respect and appreciate anyone that feels a sincere call from the Earth Mother, and embraces a sincere wish to be here in a good way, no matter what road you walk, shamanic or otherwise.

                                      Love,
                                      Veg
                                      • Unsu...
                                         

                                        Re: THE SHAMAN

                                        Sat, December 22, 2007 - 2:22 PM
                                        Likewise my friend and as always your views are respected.
                                      • Unsu...
                                         

                                        Re: THE SHAMAN

                                        Sat, December 22, 2007 - 3:02 PM
                                        **"Ultimately, I respect and appreciate anyone that feels a sincere call from the Earth Mother, and embraces a sincere wish to be here in a good way, no matter what road you walk, shamanic or otherwise."**

                                        Thats certainly not the impression I get from you very often Vege, but glad to here that "ultimately" you feel that way.
                                        • Unsu...
                                           

                                          Re: THE SHAMAN

                                          Sun, December 23, 2007 - 12:30 PM
                                          i think the problem is, is that he thinks he can tell who is sincere and not jazmin....hell he does not even talk to me anymore, i must not be sincere.....
                                          • Unsu...
                                             

                                            Re: THE SHAMAN

                                            Sun, December 23, 2007 - 3:39 PM
                                            You are all sincere, We have a busy year ahead dudes, save your energy.
                                            • Re: THE SHAMAN

                                              Sun, December 23, 2007 - 5:59 PM
                                              "Dismemberments" I do not know much on Shamanism, but would like to ask a question on total inihilation.
                                              Why is it now happening to some of us who have no culture, no elders, no knowing of these things before it just happens, can someone shed light on this for me?
                                              Is is done by spirit, the Old Ones, for i know someone was there holding my feet or i would have left the body, i would like to understand even a little of what happened in 97, if any of you wish to message maybe you could help?
                                              One thing i do know it saw Native American in energy for i was hearing chants on the 8th day when i went into the bush.
                                              Blessings and thank you all for helping ones like me who have had no physical contact with a Shaman.
                                              • Unsu...
                                                 

                                                Re: THE SHAMAN

                                                Mon, December 24, 2007 - 8:32 AM
                                                Wendy can you elaborate on what exactly happened as your experience is not clear,
                                                so it will be hard for anyone to advise you without knowing what or where this experience was.
                                                • Unsu...
                                                   

                                                  Re: THE SHAMAN

                                                  Tue, December 25, 2007 - 12:56 PM
                                                  Well dudes I think we drew an almost happy conclusion on this one and im glad i posted it as I have made so many new friends.
                                                  Thanks for your participation guys and gals too. Anybody want to post some online training, that would be a good for the future !
                                                  • Re: THE SHAMAN

                                                    Tue, December 25, 2007 - 6:11 PM
                                                    LIFE:

                                                    Peel me tear me, rip me open with your knife,
                                                    Bare me, sear me, oh wonderous life.
                                                    You who injure, as you heal,
                                                    You who kills, to make us real.
                                                    Peel me, tear me, rip me open with your knife,
                                                    Stip me bare, through human stife.

                                                    Take this life, with all it owns,
                                                    Cut the flesh, and burn the bones.
                                                    But what is this, you leave.....YOU DARE?
                                                    The pulsing heart, you have laid bare.
                                                    What joke is THIS, upon my life?
                                                    Within the heart, a burning knife!
                                                    You left me with the eyes to see,
                                                    My own heart burning, lovingly.
                                                    Oh wonderous life, you cut and tear,
                                                    Oh wonderous life, you burn and sear.

                                                    What wisdom to this one you've shown,
                                                    If i am the knife, you must be stone?
                                                    Upon your funeral pyre, its now understood,
                                                    If you are the fire, then i must be wood?
                                                    Peel me, tear me, rip me open spirit knife,
                                                    Bare me, sear me, burn me,
                                                    Oh wonderous life.
                                                    When all is gone, ... no trace, no sound,
                                                    It is only then, the truth is found.
                                                    AHH LIFE,
                                                    blessings and thanks Glenn xxxx
                                                    • Unsu...
                                                       

                                                      Re: THE SHAMAN

                                                      Wed, December 26, 2007 - 12:05 AM
                                                      I love this, and isn't that how it feels !
                                                      • Unsu...
                                                         

                                                        Re: THE SHAMAN

                                                        Wed, December 26, 2007 - 8:33 PM
                                                        that was a great poem wendy
                                                        • Re: THE SHAMAN

                                                          Thu, December 27, 2007 - 5:50 PM
                                                          Thank you for your kind words, but it is the spirit within us all that helps us to move our feelings into words, i used to think someone else channeled these things through me, for i have never liked or had much to do with poetry, and i, me, do not have the eloquince of words or understanding to have written them. Again it shows the love of spirit that assists us when are crying to understand why so much is given in dreams, life and visions, or to express the emotions and hardships of this human experience.
                                                          when listening to other peoples lives and understanding more about Shamanism, it feels like each one of us is doing a shamans journey through life, facing the collective fears of humanity, learning from the hard times that in hindsight they are our greatest gifts.
                                                          and it is the spirit self doing it, not some presence outside oursleves, it is the love of the one spirit we are, do you feel this?
                                                          Thank you so much for this post, and some of the personal messages have assisted greatly in understanding.
                                                          Blessings xxxxxxxx
                                                          • Re: THE SHAMAN

                                                            Fri, December 28, 2007 - 8:08 AM
                                                            Holy wow, Wendy, that's a powerful poem! And it definitely captures the experience of a dismemberment.

                                                            So to answer your questions, from what i have learned, yes, dismemberment is done by your benevolent spirits. It is an occurrence that had happened in shamanic cultures all over the world and is not specific to one culture (which is why it can be taught in core shamanism). I was lucky enough to have it happen to me before I knew what it was, too. In mine the raven pecked me down to my bones and then the bones too, and then I was merged with the land...ahhhh i cannot even describe how profound it was. It is a quite dramatic experience and Perfectly Safe. If one asks for a dismemberment, one must ask a trusted ally, like your power animal. What is not needed in your being is washed away and who you are when you come back is what you need and nothing more...new.

                                                            I consider not teaching it in my classes because the spontaneous experience is so raw...but the requested ones are too so..
                                                  • Re: THE SHAMAN

                                                    Fri, December 28, 2007 - 8:21 AM
                                                    OK, I know I am slow and the thread is about closed...but I am slow....and have comments to contribute. I guess the title of the thread turned me off,thinking it was going to be one of those "better than you" threads...but NO..there is dialog going on here!

                                                    About Core Shamanism:
                                                    The whole point of only teaching the bones of shamanic journey techniques is to respect indigenous cultures! That way as we carry on with the practice, we dress it up with our own creations - we create our own traditions. But the energetic basis remains true. It's like the difference between telling someone every aspect of an ancient hermetical ritual or teaching them the laws of energy and the fundamentals of creating a ritual.

                                                    About Truthfulness:
                                                    None of us would be on the tribe if we didn't care.
                                                    For me, the truth, the raw power, the ability to pour out compassion and healing from some unknown source to a fellow being comes with the integrity of which I am able to face myself. My own fears, my life's trials, how honest I can be, how brave I can be to keep my heart open as I go step by step through the hardest chapters of my life, how I can keep my trust in my spirits and a good balance between control and flow, to recognize when it is time to step through a barrier into the unknown and when that enticing portal is really some trap from the past. To learn to find my compass, to hone it and to keep it safe. To not freak out when the monsters come around and to forgive myself when I do. All these things enable me to be a better healer.

                                                    No elder can teach me these things. No teacher from core shamanism can either. It is up to me. It is my path.
                                                    • Unsu...
                                                       

                                                      Re: THE SHAMAN

                                                      Fri, December 28, 2007 - 12:18 PM
                                                      Well put and I am now working on the lines that Core Shamanism is in fact freestyle Urban Shamanism and that stuff is greatly needed, approved by Tribal Elders and helpful towards making the world a safer place for all. Thank You.
                                                    • Unsu...
                                                       

                                                      Re: THE SHAMAN

                                                      Fri, December 28, 2007 - 3:53 PM
                                                      Yep, from me too, well put Tasara!
                                                      • Re: THE SHAMAN

                                                        Fri, December 28, 2007 - 11:48 PM
                                                        Tasara, thank you beautifuly said.
                                                        There were Crows involed in mine to during the 8 days.
                                                        Also " The old One and the Crow" on blog happened a few months before.
                                                        Blessings and thank you all, very interesting and enlightening words from you all. xxxxx
                                                        • Unsu...
                                                           

                                                          Re: THE SHAMAN

                                                          Sat, December 29, 2007 - 2:28 PM
                                                          I hope all posts i deliver bring us all closer together,
                                                          without better thans and I can honestly say
                                                          I have learnt alot from what others have written here.

                                                          Thank You all for joining in and having your say,
                                                          have we not changed the present to a deeper understanding,
                                                          to gain a deeper understanding in the future?

                                                          Lets hope so !
  • Re: THE SHAMAN

    Sat, January 5, 2008 - 9:07 PM
    There are different kinds of shamans.

    I personally come from a genetic breed with a great and long history of genes perservering violence.

    I'm interested in this thread goes.

    My first impression of the post is a slight repulsion to the absolutist claims within it.

    But I do agree. The warrior aspects of certain sects ( there are many, do we not agree? )
    has been neglected in discussion.

    "I am a warrior of a clan that practices these arts"

    cool, quite a novel.
    • Re: THE SHAMAN

      Sun, January 6, 2008 - 3:38 PM
      I appreciate the words here and the differences as well as the commonalities.
      We all have our ordinary reality teachers. Some are elders in indigenouse tribes,
      some are not, some are human some are not.
      I am so thankful for my teachers seen and unseen, for the deeply disturbing experiences I have had
      as well as the gentle healing.
      A shaman is one who brings through healing, brings the power, the energy, the healing from non ordinary reality into
      our everyday world. A shaman is outrageous, often irreverent and can appear to be crazy.
      All of the other trappings like who your teachers are, what types of healing you do, what brought you to this, what experiences you have
      had. These are personal.
      I have learned that trusting is the most important task for me right now.
      Doing what must be done even though it may seem dangerous to do so.
      Doing what must be done even though others say it is not legitimate.
      To follow what is given, follow my heart and live in service to HER.
      Peace, Julie
      • Unsu...
         

        Re: THE SHAMAN

        Sun, January 6, 2008 - 5:50 PM
        Julie that is lovely and so good to hear,
        in fact i would go so far as to say this actually made my day today.
        Much respect, this is a brilliant description of Shamanaism.
        Thank you for putting it here.

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