Why I Left, and Why I'm Back...

topic posted Fri, June 26, 2009 - 10:18 AM by  Nick
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Around a year or two ago, I left the shamanism tribe amid the moderator switchover shamanism.tribe.net/thread/b...096966da2 . The tribe had become more or less consumed with the election and had devolved into petty character attacks and finger pointing, so I left. It was kind of childish on my part, but that was just part of the reason I left.

The real impetus for my departure was that I felt like a hypocrite for being on this site. The fact of the matter is, I DON'T BELIEVE IN SHAMANISM. I think its a fad, a romanticization of indigenous practices, homogenized, and diluted for Western consumption. The very word 'shaman' refers to a specific Turko-Mongol animist practice from Siberia, yet has come to be adopted by spiritualists the world around. I felt foolish for participating in discussions about a subject that lacked so much context, that I feel so conflicted about. To top it off, there were the infantile attacks, some of which I participated in, only reinforcing my desire to leave.

However, things have changed since then, Richard is an able moderator and the discussions are interesting. I came back because even though there are tribes with more accurate titles and targeted discussion, the very nature of this tribe tribe as a catch-all for spiritualists of all types guarantees diversity of opinions on here. Diversity is one thing that I've been taught to appreciate from a very young age, and I feel that my native tribe, the Southern Californians, exemplify that global, syncretized melting pot.

I will remain on this tribe though, because above all, I'm fascinated by plant and prayer medicine and appreciate new perspectives on how people can relate to them and use them to heal themselves and others. It is a peculiarity of human nature that instead of feeling powerful and true in our own experience and perspective, we seek validation through some authority, usually an indigenous teacher or academic institute. While I appreciate the teachers that I've had in my life, their traditions are their own and I would be just another plastic shaman if I were to pretend to be an huachumero or ayahuasquero. There is a distinct difference between studying and honoring traditions that are not your own, and bastardizing and appropriating them and presenting yourself as something you're not.

I just had to get that off my chest, I'm trying hard not to be judgemental of others and their relationships with spirit. There is nothing wrong with white people liking and celebrating aspects of different cultures, whether they're urban hip hop, Native American or Chinese herbalism, or Polynesian Fire Spinning. Those are just three examples from my life. However, I fully expect for some people to judge me because as a cracker, I don't fit their preconceived notions of the type of person who is interested in those things. They're entitled to their opinions, and I'm entitled to my interests. Fortunately, hip hop culture is colorblind to an extent, and the history of fire spinning is obscure enough that I rarely encounter much crap for it. But if I do, I understand that as a white person the onus is on me to justify or explain why I have those interests (though NOT to apologize for them).

As for my interest in plant medicine, I'd never identify or promote myself as a medicine man or a shaman for the many reasons I've already stated. However, Native Americans do NOT have a monopoly on human-kinds relationship with plants, and interacting with other-than-human people predates any race, culture, or religion. Its when that relationship is relegated to a style, marketing, or fashion statement that it becomes offensive, not just to indigenous people but to anyone who values nature.

I guess my point is, white people have every right to be interested in culture and customs that they are not biologically related to, but due to our privilege we should not be surprised when the people that come from those cultures question our motivations. If you have a genuine interest in honoring those traditions, you don't have to apologize for it, but explain yourself. Don't get defensive either, because in doing so you're ignoring all the people that co-opt other cultures for purely selfish reasons and acting just as selfishly.
posted by:
Nick
Los Angeles
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  • Re: Why I Left, and Why I'm Back...

    Fri, June 26, 2009 - 10:21 AM
    • Re: Why I Left, and Why I'm Back...

      Fri, June 26, 2009 - 10:40 AM
      Much ado about nothing...
      Find pride in your actions, not in your words Nick.
      The worst thing one can have is pity on themselves.
      Like you are not worth it.. bullshit...
      You have every right to follow your dreams.
      Your dreams are yours..
      As anyone's dreams are theirs..
      It's a round world and we are all humans..
      If you find pride or shame in skincolor you are way off..
      Everybody has different roots.
      How hard can it be to just 'be human'.
      Breath, eat, shit, work, sweat, fuck.

      The rational and the intellect have only made this world stranger and more abstract..
      If there are wise things to be said..
      In a hundred years you will be dead..
      So will I...

      So live while you can without shame.
      Work for a better future..
      Try inspiring people positively..
      Negative thought will keep coming, but they ar ejust thoughts.
      Try to understand where they come from and you will gain a transformative power to inspire yourself and others.

      At least...

      That's how I feel about it..




      • Re: Why I Left, and Why I'm Back...

        Fri, June 26, 2009 - 10:42 AM
        And what other people do is their problem.. not yours..
        You don't have to apologize for other people..
        You have to clear your own consciounce, not theirs..
        You are responsible for your actions, not theirs..
  • Re: Why I Left, and Why I'm Back...

    Fri, June 26, 2009 - 10:56 AM
    What color is a person's soul?
    • Re: Why I Left, and Why I'm Back...

      Fri, June 26, 2009 - 11:15 AM
      I guess Geert, that was my point. I was ashamed then, as I felt like a poser, and that's why I left.

      I feel no shame now, as I'm clear about my intentions and my passions. However, I see no need to ignore the past, or to try to belittle justified concerns some have of cultural misappropriation. The bastardization and homogenization that the Western world inflicts on others is a real thing, no amount of 'positive thinking' will wish it away.

      But we don't have to participate in that watering down process. I'd like to see us evolve to a place where we honor and respect the multitude of beautiful wisdom traditions that we've been gifted with, and celebrate our personal journeys.

      You're right Richard, the soul has no color, and the plants are colorblind as well. I wish that it were that simple, but we humans use words to find commonality and differentiation, and words like 'shaman' are loaded with connotations and history that our souls may be able to ignore, but our minds and our bodies cannot...
      • Re: Why I Left, and Why I'm Back...

        Fri, June 26, 2009 - 11:28 AM
        You can't change the past..
        You can make a difference now is what tried to communicate.
        Pain is everywhere, there is no need to neglect it, and harm has been done, and it will be done much more..
        You can only begin with yourself.
        It's easy and can start right now..
        And it starts with positivism..
        And if you don't believe that, then don't..
        That will be your problem, not mine..
        As I said..
        You are responsible for your actions, as is anyone else for theirs..
        SO am I for mine..
        You can't hide behind guilt and shame and fear that is not yours..
        You can't hide behind someone elses pain because it is not yours..

        And a soul is milky-watery-white as I remember.
        • Re: Why I Left, and Why I'm Back...

          Fri, June 26, 2009 - 11:38 AM
          the soul has many colors Richard..from light to dark..what color was Hitlers soul..I have no problem when anyone of any color has a genuine interest in another culture..but when they decide they know more than a culture and it can be researched..I have a problem with that...Love to all good hearts
          • Re: Why I Left, and Why I'm Back...

            Fri, June 26, 2009 - 5:14 PM
            Russel Means said--if you are only 1 tenth of some kind of blood and you want to consider yourself of that blood than you have all the right to do so,and proudly--
            • Re: Why I Left, and Why I'm Back...

              Fri, June 26, 2009 - 5:35 PM
              I thought we left behind the idea of "blood" a hundred years ago.

              I am aware of no scientific basis for a belief that cultural traditions are have any genetic component.

              If "blood" is required, and Richard does not have Chinese "blood" -- and what would that mean? -- does he have to give back his Doctor of Oriental Medicine and Doctor of Philosophy in Oriental Medicine degrees?

              -- Steve
              singingtotheplants.blogspot.com/
              • Re: Why I Left, and Why I'm Back...

                Fri, June 26, 2009 - 5:42 PM
                Agreed. It's a stupid and outmoded concept, in my not at all humble opinion. We are all here to learn from each other, and we must do so to survive. We've lost right relationship with the universe, in large part because of these ideas of artificial separation. If I view someone of a different tribe as "the other", there is separation. Then mine and yours. Then possibly fighting and war.

                I've had so many experiences where I witnessed this separation being artificially created. "Yes, we want peace - for our people". Stupid concept. Same thing with "our God". So blind to the reality that we are all connected, not only with each other but with every atom in the universe. "All my relations" includes it all, not just those my tribe, race, culture, belief, species, or planet.
          • Re: Why I Left, and Why I'm Back...

            Sat, June 27, 2009 - 10:54 AM
            I agree that the soul has many colors.

            Because light does too.
            • My point

              Sat, June 27, 2009 - 2:01 PM
              I'll reiterate:
              My point is, white people have every right to be interested in cultures and customs that they are not biologically related to, but due to our privilege we should not be surprised when the people that come from those cultures question our motivations. If you have a genuine interest in honoring those traditions, you don't have to apologize for it, but you do have the obligation to explain yourself when questioned. I you have a great relationship with the people that you study and emulate, you should have no problem making your good intentions clear.
              • Re: My point

                Sat, June 27, 2009 - 7:41 PM
                Hi Nick. I think that curiosity is good and learning is grand. Many tribal people see the truth of the matter and know that the knowledge that many people seek from their spiritual leaders will never be used in the way they were meant to be by outsiders. We go out in search of spiritual truth and there is nothing wrong with that. However, without a village to serve much of the knowledge obtained will never get used to an acceptable extent because most people don't have the capacity to live as a servant to the masses. They may be talented enough but lack an audience. It's hard to obtain clients for a lot of spiritual services. People either don't believe you can help them and refuse to even attempt a healing with you or they think that healing should be free because they have no clue how it works, the dangers involved or the amount of physical and mental concentration it takes. One healing can wipe me out for a while unless I recharge by batteries with a 10 minute deep breathing exercise. The tribal people that see the influx of strangers into their villages see beyond what we normally do. My Kahuna had a busboy at a restaurant fresh from the jungle take one look at him and not leave his side the entire time he was in the restaurant. He refilled Lani's glass every time he took a drink of water as though Lani were a king or something. There is always going to be an exception to the rules of course. Once in while, an outsider my be a savior so, I say learn what you can and pray to find a teacher willing to spend time with you. Physical contact is necessary to know if someone is the real deal or not and the energy exchanged during physical contact makes a difference on subtle levels that cannot be substituted by any book. Aloha, Kahuna Lamaku.
              • Re: My point

                Mon, July 6, 2009 - 10:47 PM
                It is not the tradition that one seeks, but rather connection to Source. The tradition is but a tool.

                Why do you keep coming back here, Nick? Why are you intrigued in this path? Have you thought about discovering why? Maybe it is time to seek out a ceremony in your area such as a sweat lodge. Talk is cheap, and written word usually even more so.

                You have spent enough time here. The question is... on this path (you will only know by stepping on it)... does Spirit move you?

                -- just a personal opinion: anyone who follows Spirit's calling cannot possibly be a poser. Forget about others and their judgement. Follow that which moves you.
                • Re: My point

                  Tue, July 7, 2009 - 10:59 AM
                  Elfin-
                  I know quite well why I keep coming back here. In the past few years, I've discovered so many things about myself as I walk down this path. I never knew that I was a dancer, for the first 25 years of my life. Now I know that I'm able to heal people and the land with my dancing. I also hated gardening, and had no connection to plants. Now I know that my true calling in life is restoring life to the earth, putting energy into it for future generations.

                  I come to the shamanism tribe because I appreciate all the different paths and traditions that people are on, and like to hear about their connection to the source. I just have no desire to walk all their paths, appropriate their traditions, and connect to the source in the same way. However, when I hear or read of a new way of doing things, even if i don't choose to follow suit, I feel like my reality is expanded by that knowledge.

                  As for ceremonies and sweats, there is no deficiency of either in my life... I am surrounded by spontaneous and traditional ceremony keepers, and can't begin to express my gratitude for that.
  • Re: Why I Left, and Why I'm Back...

    Sun, June 28, 2009 - 8:35 PM
    I left tribe
    then came back,
    changed my name,
    grew an alt,
    which grew another.
    And then left again,
    a little more to the right
    this time,
    only to return
    once as before.
    My mind was hexed
    with thoughts of
    new and better places,
    however to find nothing
    as good as the original.
    I danced in and out
    of facebook, myspace,
    ning networks, fubar,
    to name just a few
    on my way
    back to selves

    Mathu

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