Thoughts on Carlos Castaneda?

topic posted Tue, September 22, 2009 - 9:56 AM by  Nick
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The recent discussion on 'The Being' mentions some of the noted "anthropologist's" claims. I've read a few of his books, heard some of the controversy surrounding him, and done some research on my own, but I'm curious what you guys think about ol' Mr. Castaneda...
posted by:
Nick
Los Angeles
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  • Re: Thoughts on Carlos Castaneda?

    Tue, September 22, 2009 - 10:08 AM
    I have put down some of my thoughts here:

    www.singingtotheplants.com/2008...rlos/

    -- Steve
    www.singingtotheplants.com/
    • Re: Thoughts on Carlos Castaneda?

      Tue, September 22, 2009 - 11:33 AM
      Steve.....such a wonderful little essay on Carlos, and thanks for including that video from the BBC. I wonder why no documentaries were ever done on Carlos in America???

      I was in college when I read the first Castaneda book, and my husband-to-be was an Anthropology student....we met because of interest in the Castaneda book.

      Since then I have read all his books....each one becoming less interesting than the one before. I truly believe the first few books held the most of "truth," at least as Carlos saw it. Still, he probably did embellish everything he wrote with his own imaginative additions.

      His work was fiction....and a new kind of fiction that included some real scenes within it. Passed off as non-fiction, it described a reality that was "in-between." And that gave it power. If nothing else, there was the power to IMAGINE, and if one can imagine it, one can (perhaps) experience it....or something like it.

      I read a few of the "witch's" books and found them very inferior. I read Merilyn Tunneshende's books about "Don Juan" and truly enjoyed them. I read Margaret Runyon Castaneda's book about her early years with Castaneda, and also Amy Wallace's book, which was truly shocking and really made my stomach turn!

      This is what I think about Carlos. I think he did meet a very Wise Native American man who cleverly used him to help himself and his friends transcend their circumstances. Someone who knew Carlos from the inside out. I don't think he knew him very long; Carlos would probably be difficult to know for very long without being repelled by him.

      Carlos was what I call a "Sacred Thief." Not only did he steal from others, he also stole from his own soul. And it came back and bit him in the ass.

      Yet, like all Sacred Thieves, he brought something "across the border" that changed everything. He had a hell of an imagination and was a breakthrough writer.

      Every once in a while, I still think he is laughing and celebrating the fact that no one really knew him. Not even himself.
      • Re: Thoughts on Carlos Castaneda?

        Tue, September 22, 2009 - 1:26 PM
        Wow, thanks Steve and Maggie. I wanted to hear it from people who's opinions I respect, not Wikipedia. There's a dangerous laziness creeping into our culture (or already thoroughly entrenched, I forget which) whereby information is so readily accessible, yet so lacking in authority....

        Kind of similar to the character of don Juan. Castaneda made it seem so easy to access such a rare teacher (probably because he wasn't actually visiting don Juan), trumped up the maestro's authority, yet in the end many of that teacher's "lessons" were exposed as based on nothing but hearsay and conjecture.

        The factoid that made me the saddest was when a factchecker found the date Mr. Castaneda claimed to be in a peyote ceremony and checked his library logs. In reality, he was in the stacks at UCLA reading another anthropologist's account of a peyote experience. How many aspiring spiritualists and shamans have based their dreams of connecting to a native ritual on Castaneda's plagiarism?

        In the end, does it matter?
      • Re: Thoughts on Carlos Castaneda?

        Tue, September 22, 2009 - 4:19 PM
        There is a documentary on Castaneda:

        www.castanedamovie.com/

        I met Castaneda numerous times during the Tensegrity years when he was teaching. You get a real mixed bag with Carlos. He knew a lot about some subjects that few people ever will. At times he had tremendous incite. He made up stuff constantly, some times as a tool to teach other times as a tool to mislead. He met with the most creative and interesting people of his time and wove their ideas into his Don Juan story. Many of those ideas were valid, some were not and some got stretched. He helped some people a lot and he hurt a lot of people. I learned a lot when I was around him but I was smart enough to keep my distance.
        • CG
          CG
          offline 49

          Re: Thoughts on Carlos Castaneda?

          Tue, September 22, 2009 - 9:33 PM
          Even today his editors still won't call it fiction, probably for a love of $$$. Carlos insistence that his story was real was a character defect. Something in his character could never admit that it was just fantastical storytelling, even though he'd sat and made it all up. It's weirdness and appeal, I think, was the demented result of someone who chose to believe his own lies to the point where he really thought they were real. Whatever you call that, he made an imaginary world and went to live in it. His belief in it was so strong that others moved into his delusion with him, preferring a imaginary magical reality to whatever they been perceiving before.

          Sound familiar?
          • CG
            CG
            offline 49

            Re: Thoughts on Carlos Castaneda?

            Tue, September 22, 2009 - 9:49 PM

            I want to add that there are folks doing this all the time in a similar, but different way. Sometimes it's healthy and sometimes it's not.

            Like nuclear weapons in Iraq. It was a fabricated story that the tellers never backed down from in order to accomplish a much different goal, one that had nothing to do with nuclear weapons or the safety of the free world. They will never admit that their original intention was different than the reasoning they fabricated to achieve their real goal.

            I wonder what Carlo's original goal really was, and how it drove him to stand behind his consequent fictions.
            • Re: Thoughts on Carlos Castaneda?

              Wed, September 23, 2009 - 12:24 AM
              Back in the 1970's my Kahuna was sent a client who needed an exorcism. Lani always wondered why he didn't just do it himself. He also wondered how his name came to be known by Carlos Castaneda. KL
              • Re: Thoughts on Carlos Castaneda?

                Wed, September 23, 2009 - 6:06 AM
                KL, can you share what a Kahuna-style exorcism entails? Is it like the Catholic Church rite of exorcism, or is it something different?
                • Re: Thoughts on Carlos Castaneda?

                  Wed, September 23, 2009 - 7:59 AM
                  Hi Maggie. I don't know how it works in the Catholic church. We use prayer, Bach Flower remedies as part of a holy water to wash people and Ti leaves. Knowing what has happened in the past I would also try to contact their "higher self" to see if it has been offended in any way. We had a lady who needed an exorcism whose guardian angel had abandoned her for destroying her marriage that had been divinely arranged. Angels have free will and feelings as well. A lot of people tend to treat God like a therapist or something instead of the family member it truly is. Aloha, Kahuna Lamaku.
            • Re: Thoughts on Carlos Castaneda?

              Wed, September 23, 2009 - 6:04 AM
              >Like nuclear weapons in Iraq. It was a fabricated story that the tellers never backed down from in order to accomplish a much different goal, one that had nothing to do with nuclear weapons or the safety of the free world. They will never admit that their original intention was different than the reasoning they fabricated to achieve their real goal.

              Good point, CG. People accept views of reality according to their needs and predilictions. It's always better to maintain a degree of skepticism when assessing one's view of the world. "Belief work" is essential. My view is 360 degrees, with one degree of skepticism.

              One can use imagination as a bridge into non-ordinary reality. However, one must be vigilant and always assess the results of each "experiment."

              Here's a "pledge" that I made to commit myself to the path of Positive Intent. I use this "pledge" to help assess my own belief system and my reality creation:

              www.religioustolerance.org/wic_stat2.htm
              • Re: Thoughts on Carlos Castaneda?

                Thu, September 24, 2009 - 5:58 PM
                I think the jury will always be out on Casteneda. BBC's documentary is inconclusive... and were it to prove him as a liar, it would at the same time be validating his story. Remember that in his own words, he was trained as a 'stalker,' somebody that manipulates events, circumstances, and even stories to get the results they desire. So proving that somebody who comes right out and says that there is a great possibility he is lying to get his point across... as a liar... is a pretty absurd thing.
                • CG
                  CG
                  offline 49

                  Re: Thoughts on Carlos Castaneda?

                  Thu, September 24, 2009 - 10:11 PM

                  As fiction I really enjoyed his books. I was young and found them to be kind of magical. They inspired me to keep exploring.

                  Years later I still have good memories of reading them, but I also think the guy was a unnecessarily fraudulent and kind of nuts. Not that I'm a Saint or perfect at anything, but he went to great lengths to involve others in his personal weirdness and those closest to him were alienated from their families and in the end drank the cool-aid so to speak.
                • Re: Thoughts on Carlos Castaneda?

                  Fri, September 25, 2009 - 3:17 AM
                  If Carlos tells me he is a liar, I am quite willing to believe him.

                  Of course, I am sure he did not lie *all* the time. When he said to a waiter, "Hmm, I'd like a hamburger," would he lie? Why?

                  This whole business of being a stalker, by the way -- manipulating events, circumstances, and stories -- ultimately comes from the ethnomethodological theories of sociologist Harold Garfinkel, under whom Castaneda studied at UCLA. But the idea appears only in the later Castaneda books.

                  Garfinkel used to have his students behave in bizarre ways, in order to expose to covert rules that govern ordinary social interactions.

                  -- Steve
                  www.singingtotheplants.com/
  • Re: Thoughts on Carlos Castaneda?

    Fri, September 25, 2009 - 6:05 AM
    I once asked the Native American writer Paula Gunn Allen what she thought of Carlos Castaneda. She said that she thought he took a lot of his stuff from Sufi teachers. It didn't strike her as related to Native American spiritual practice at all.

    Some have suggested a relationship between Castaneda's writings and the teachings of Oscar Ichazo. Here is a page about that speculation:

    www.sustainedaction.org/Explor...eda.htm

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